We will use the Bible.

Talk about Jesus Christ, the unblemished lamb of God, whose blood washes away the sins of the world. Our helmet of salvation.

We will use the Bible.

Postby EnderGate » Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:12 pm

Even though, admitted, the Bible contains a few statements which some may, in one's present state of knowledge or discernment, by unable to harmonize, that should not rational to deny the general doctrine.

If the critics of the Bible dismiss the New Testament as reliable information, then they must also dismiss the reliability of the writings of Plato, Aristotle, Caesar, Homer, etc. On the other hand, if the critics acknowledge the historicity and writings of the ancient authors, then they must also retain the historicity and writings of the New Testament authors; after all, the evidence for the New Testament's reliability is far greater than the others. There is substantially superior criteria for affirming the New Testament documents than for any other ancient writing.

It is one book, yet made up of many different books, composed by about forty writers, over a period of about sixteen hundred years. It is impossible that there should have been collusion between the writers. Yet there is.

There is an extensive list of extra-biblical (outside of the Bible) references of biblical events, places, etc. These few samples are only representative of what is available.

Flavius Josephus (AD 37?-101?, a Jewish historian) mentions Jesus - Antiquities, Book 18, ch. 3, par. 3. wrote:“Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. “

mentions John the Baptist and Herod - Antiquities, Book 18, ch. 5, par. 2 wrote:"…punishment of what he did against John, that was called the Baptist: for Herod slew him, who was a good man, ..."

It is essentially an historical account of the people of God throughout the years. Much of the Holy Bible describes places, and events in various degrees of detail and can be verified from archeology. There is no archaeological discovery that disproves the Bible. Matthew, Mark, and Luke were all written before 70 A.D. As scholarship and archeology advance, confirmation of early authorship of the New Testament continues to be validated.

We use the Holy Bible as a reference to our faith. For most, it contains the two-edged sword, the word of God that led us to our faith.

Books to read on the topic...
Revelation and Inspiration - The late Dr. Benjamin B. Warfield
A Scientific Investigation of the Old Testament - Dr. Robert D. Wilson
The Five Books of Moses - Dr. Oswald T. Allis

The Council of Trent, in the year 1653, set standards that the Roman Catholic Church introduced a fundamentally different authority in religion, and of religion itself. When it put alongside of the Scriptures certain traditions of the church, (consisting mainly of decrees issued by the popes and by church councils,) and declared that the church alone was to be acknowledged as "the judge of the true sense and interpretation of the Holy Scriptures."

We however have committed ourselves to this Book without reserve, and have based our creeds upon it. We have not made our appeal to an infallible Church, nor to a scholastic hierarchy, but to the Word of God, that by His providential care it has been kept pure in all ages, and that it is the only inspired, infallible rule of faith and practice. The Holy Spirit bears witness with ours that these things are so, the primary and decisive grounds for his conviction being not external but internal.

Thanks be to God.
Love the giver of life, more than the gift...
Just try to be good, don't claim to be...
User avatar
EnderGate
Christian
 
Posts: 1570
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:53 pm
Location: Canada

Postby bonedizzle03 » Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:20 am

The Josephus passage is among the most celebrated as proving that Jesus existed:

"Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works; a teacher of such men as received the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day." (Antiquities XVIII 63f)


At first glance, this appears to be a very good source for the historical existence of Jesus. However, Josephus was a Jewish priest of high position and a general in the revolt against Rome. Given that in his long history of the Jews, there is no indication (other than this passage) that he was anything but an orthodox Jewish priest. And being such there is no way that he would have written such an account of one whom he would in no ways have considered the long awaited for Messiah of the Jews, a Messiah who would reestablish the Jewish state. The conflict between this passage and the rest of the book is strong evidence for the conclusion that the passage was an interpolation by a Christian scribea common practice. Futhermore, up until the 4th Century there are no mentions of Josephus having written about Jesus in this way. None of the Christian Church Fathers mentioned Josephus as having written about Jesus, and they specifically addressed in their writing the topic of Pagan sources on the life of Jesus. Justin Martyr and Origen, among others undoubtedly were familiar with Josephus history and would have been glad to use it to answer Pagan and Jewish critics. They did not, however, no mention of it at all. Origen actually said that Josephus did not acknowledge Jesus. The reasonable conclusion is that the passage is an interpolation done after the 4th century.
bonedizzle03
Active Member
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Banned

Postby Pros » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:11 am

bonedizzle03 wrote:At first glance, this appears to be a very good source for the historical existence of Jesus. However, Josephus was a Jewish priest of high position and a general in the revolt against Rome. Given that in his long history of the Jews, there is no indication (other than this passage) that he was anything but an orthodox Jewish priest. And being such there is no way that he would have written such an account of one whom he would in no ways have considered the long awaited for Messiah of the Jews, a Messiah who would reestablish the Jewish state. The conflict between this passage and the rest of the book is strong evidence for the conclusion that the passage was an interpolation by a Christian scribea common practice. Futhermore, up until the 4th Century there are no mentions of Josephus having written about Jesus in this way. None of the Christian Church Fathers mentioned Josephus as having written about Jesus, and they specifically addressed in their writing the topic of Pagan sources on the life of Jesus. Justin Martyr and Origen, among others undoubtedly were familiar with Josephus history and would have been glad to use it to answer Pagan and Jewish critics. They did not, however, no mention of it at all. Origen actually said that Josephus did not acknowledge Jesus. The reasonable conclusion is that the passage is an interpolation done after the 4th century.


Your plagiarism is epic. Why are you so ashamed of your sources?
Pros
Christian
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:20 pm

Postby bonedizzle03 » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:09 am

"Your plagiarism is epic. Why are you so ashamed of your sources?"

I've posted that in other threads and listed the source there. Are you saying the information I provided isn't true? Show me some evidence.
bonedizzle03
Active Member
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Banned

Postby EnderGate » Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:39 pm

The Bible can be trusted, including its historical reliability and accuracy.

The Christian canon is the body of scripture comprised in the Bible consisting of the 39 books in the Old Testament and 27 in the New Testament. It is not a Mormonism, nor Catholicism, nor Islamic, faith canon. The writings of these other faiths either refer upon the Bible and Christ as Holy, or add to it, or take from it.

The Christian Canon
Old Testament
Pentateuch - 5 books
Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy

Historical Books - 12 books
Joshua, Judges, Ruth, First Samuel, Second Samuel, First Kings, Second Kings, First Chronicles, Second Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther.

Poetical - 5 books
Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon

Prophetical - 17 books
Major Prophets - Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel
Minor Prophets - Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi

New Testament
Historical Books - 5 books
Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts
Pauline Epistles - 13 books
Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians. 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon
Non-Pauline Epistles - 9 books
Hebrews, James, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, 3 John, Jude, Revelation
Note: Some authors attribute Hebrews to Paul.

Archaeological
There are a host of archaeological digs that corroborate biblical records such as Bethsaida, Bethany, Caesarea Philippi, Capernaum, Cyprus, Galatia, Philippi, Thessalonica, Berea, Athens, Corinth, Ephesus, Rome, etc.

Historical Writings
Modern Historians will agree that the gospels are historical documents, biographies of Jesus, based on eyewitness testimony.

(maybe 600 O.T. manuscripts, over 5000 Greek N.T. documents)
Norman Geisler & Peter Bocchino, Unshakeable Foundations, (Minneapolis, MN: Bethany House Publishers, 2001) p. 256.

Old Testament is well verified. Multiple prophecies from O.T. fulfilled through Christ. The odds? New Testament documents are better preserved and more numerous than any other ancient writing.

Flavius Josephus (37-101 A.D) is valid to quote, he did live near that time of the gospels.

Tacitus (A.D. c.55-A.D. c.117, Roman historian) mentions "christus" who is Jesus

There are more…

Deuteronomy 19:15 wrote:at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

Matt 18:16 wrote:But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.


Biblical documents do record actual historical accounts. Christ is God in flesh. You’re a man; please don’t tell me God can’t do something you can do. The eyewitnesses of the time were mostly martyred for the testimony of what they witnessed.

The last chapter of the Holy Bible tells how there will be no new revelation, no new prophecy.
Revelation 22 wrote: 7Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

The point of the end of the book of Revelation (thus at the end of the whole Bible) is that the same responsibility rests on every reader or hearer of the word of God.
Matt 5:19 wrote:whoever breaks one of the least of "these commandments" and teaches others to do so will be called least in "the kingdom of heaven"


This is not really an intellectual issue, (though many scolars do approach it this way with good intent,) it is a spiritual one. Let me ask who you think said this without looking it up?
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.


The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen
User avatar
EnderGate
Christian
 
Posts: 1570
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:53 pm
Location: Canada

Postby Me » Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:58 pm

EnderGate wrote:We will use the Bible


Amen to that! :D
Evolution is a theory based on faith.
User avatar
Me
Christian
 
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:38 pm

Postby Mekelsior » Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:50 pm

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.


Not sure, but it would sound like something Peter or Paul would say.

May I reccomend the site, Reasonable Faith, with Dr William Lane Craig. A theologan and philosopher. Find it very compelling.

The history of Christendom, is evidence for Christ. Who would, in their own right mind, found a church based on hogwash, and then allow yourself to be persecuted, humiliated, be hurt, stoned, burnt and so on, and finally die a martyrs death, for something you yourself have made up? The answer is simple, No one.

So by the laws of Logic and Reasoning, any other explaination would be an insult to humanity, and an insult to God.

The Bible speaks for itself, KJV is my prefered one, even though I have yet to obtain one, I have however heard of the Companion Bible, that Jordan Maxwell use, any thoughts on that?

God Bless
"Let those that have ears, Hear"
User avatar
Mekelsior
Christian
 
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:06 pm
Location: Norway

Postby DevonR » Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:28 am

ONLY use king james version, or the best - king james 1611 bible. (the 100% absolute best is the king james 1611)

all of these new bibles have defiled passages, and verses were taken out. It says somewhere in the bible, ironically, NOT to modify it. (translations sure, but keeping them as accurate as possible, and not adding satanic phrases or CHANGING the enitre meaning of some verses)

I read something about the king james version is the only bible that has italics for words that were "Added in" during the translation.


God Bless!!!
User avatar
DevonR
Christian
 
Posts: 703
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:42 am

Postby EnderGate » Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:39 am

John 3:16 should read "only begotten Son"

I just noticed the New kjv ommitted begotten, why?

God's people are "sons of God" (Rom. 8: 14). We are 'adopted'. He is the Begotten Son of God by sharing the same nature and spirit, being in the Father, and the Father in Him.
User avatar
EnderGate
Christian
 
Posts: 1570
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:53 pm
Location: Canada

Postby DevonR » Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:50 am

oh there are MANY more modifications in the new king james version... you should see my NLT (new living translation) I can say that satan has personally took the time to edit it. and it cost 60$!!! I got this bible when I was a "dead" christian, I thought reading a bible would make me better... I was ignorant at the fact that they could be edited... but God showed me the truth behind these perversions... I mean translations.

http://www.-Bad Link-/Bible/NL ... xposed.htm

Deuteronomy - "sodomite" changed to "temple prostitute"
1 Kings 14:24 - "sodomites" replaced with "shrine prostitutes"
1 Kings 15:12 - "sodomites" replaced with "shrine prostitutes"
1 Kings 22:46 - "sodomites" replaced with "shrine prostitutes"
2 Kings 23:7 - "sodomites" replaced with "shrine prostitutes"
Matthew 17:21 - entire verse omitted
Matthew 18:11 - entire verse omitted
Matthew 19:9 - half of the verse is omitted
Matthew 23:14 - entire verse omitted
Mark 6:11 - half of the verse is omitted
Mark 7:16 - entire verse omitted
Mark 9:44, 46 - entire verses omitted
Mark 11:26 - entire verse omitted
Mark 15:28 - entire verse omitted
Mark 16:9-20 - entire passage is questioned by a footnote that says, "The most reliable early manuscripts conclude the Gospel of Mark at verse 8"
Luke 4:8 - "get thee behind me Satan" is omitted
Luke 17:36 - entire verse omitted
Luke 23:17 - entire verse omitted
John 1:10 - says God created everything "through" Jesus instead of "by" Jesus as the KJB teaches
John 1:41 - The NLT leaves out the phrase, "Which is by interpretation, a stone." Hence, the critical distinction between Peter as "the stone" (Petros), and Jesus as "The Rock" (Petra) is obscured. This was no doubt deliberate to pleases Catholics who falsely teach that Peter is the rock upon which the church is built. The Bible states in no uncertain terms, "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ" (1st Corinthians 3:11).
John 3:16 - the all important word "begotten" is omitted, thus denying the deity of Christ
John 3:13 - "which is in heaven" is omitted John 5:4 - entire verse omitted
John 7:53 - 8:11 -- entire passage is questioned in a note which says, "The most ancient Greek manuscripts do not include John 7:53 - 8:11"
Acts 8:37 - entire verse omitted
Acts 12:4 - changes "Easter" to the incorrect "Passover" (See Numbers 28:16,17 and Acts 12:2 in the KJB)
Acts 17:29 - completely removes the "Godhead"
Acts 28:29 - entire verse omitted
Romans 1:20 - completely removes the "Godhead"
Romans 16:24 - entire verse omitted
Philippians 2:6 -removes the word "equal," thus denying Christ's deity
Colossians 1:16 - says God created everything "through" Jesus instead of "by" Jesus as the KJB teaches
Colossians 2:9 - completely removes the "Godhead"
1 Timothy 3:16 - "God" is omitted, says "Christ appeared in the flesh, thus denying the deity of Christ
1 Timothy 6:5 - "from such withdraw thyself" is omitted
Hebrews 1:3 - the all-important words "by himself" are omitted
1 Peter 4:1 - "for us" is omitted
1 Peter 4:14 - half of the verse is omitted
1 John 3:16 -completely removes "the love of God"
1 John 4:3 - the all-important words "Christ is come in the flesh" are omitted 1 John 5:7-8 -- Trinitarian clause omitted
1 John 5:7 - half of the verse is omitted, thus denying the Godhead
1 John 5:13 - half of the verse is omitted
Revelation 1:11 - first half of the verse is omitted
Revelation 5:14 - "him that liveth forever and ever" is omitted

I wanted to copy this long list so Christians REALIZE how much damage has been to God's word :cry:

EDIT: oh yes, DO NOT get an NLT bible, they are QUITE expensive (and I got mine half price) I wouldn't even GIVE my NLT away, I'll keep it for exposing all of these modifications... but I am never giving it away, because I wish not for one to get harmed by it's falseness! I will dispose of it. I think God no longer considers it HIS word.

"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you." -Deuteronomy 4:2

Please, I ask everyone to become more aware of this.

God Bless!
User avatar
DevonR
Christian
 
Posts: 703
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:42 am

Postby EnderGate » Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:30 am

I don't believe when people tell me they HAVE read the Bible when they do not know the Word. Thats an excuse. I read the Bible every day, and when a brother suggests I read a passage or directs me to a scripture, I take that as a compliment, and do. Who knows how the Lord works in us, God is good.

Since I do read His Holy Bible, I don't defend that I do to others. God knows that I do.
User avatar
EnderGate
Christian
 
Posts: 1570
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:53 pm
Location: Canada

Re: We will use the Bible.

Postby Genesis » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:07 am

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.


It's Isaiah. Praise God for the prophecies in the Old Testament. There is much of Christ in Isaiah, blessed prophet.
Genesis
Christian
 
Posts: 1487
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 7:55 am
Location: The Land Down Under

Re: We will use the Bible.

Postby judechild » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:16 am

I have found a great resource to be the inter-institutional cooperation that has digitized the oldest known complete New Testament: the Codex Siniaticus. It is located here: http://www.codex-sinaiticus.net/en/
Death but not Sin
judechild
Christian
 
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:36 am
Location: next to the heart of Jesus and Mary


Return to Let's Talk Christ!



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron